A bunch of ideas about Saulot and Tremere and Clans Salubri and Tremere, all jumbled together into this file. --- (Message vampire:87) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 10:13:41 -0800 From: Jack Dracula Subject: re: Saulot/Tremere Tremere diabolizes Saulot. Imaging the Rush-> "Phenomenal Cosmic Power!" He has made his Clan a foe to be reckoned with. A few decades pass, with the Tremere creating the Gargoyles, and securing their place of power within the World of Darkness. Then ol' Tremmie lets his next victim go, her plaintie cries echoing in his mind. Why? Instead of crushing his enemies, he simply ceeds a pact with them, leaving their village in peace. And rather than continue to fight the Camarilla, he pledges for acceptance. What monster has been affecting his emotions? What plot to make him just average, instead of the most powerful of the undead? _Saulot_ Suddenly, he starts an introspective journey. He goes back into the deepest recesses of his mind, and realizes that the force he thought was the last vestige of a consciousness was actually a _voice_, suggesting nicer things to do. Tremere was in a fury. He stole the life and soul of Saulot, but only now, almost a century later, does he find out: ou can't destroy a soul. Saulot had realized the same; instead of passing on, the promise of Golconda, he had been trapped in the mind and soul of Tremere. The magician wanted to exorcise him immediately. He called the worldwide hunt on the childer of Saulot, hoping by destroying the descendents, the sire would fade. True, many Salurbi were slain, but the most insidious trick was to follow. Saulot could not let the massacre continue. He summoned up his will, and came to the fore of Tremere, just ehind the eyes. And when he needed to, he used all his inner strength, -and shielded Tremere's eyes.- He also began to touch Tremere's subconscious and emotions again, just a touch here and there... Tremere declared to his brood and to the Camarilla that the soul- stealers had been slain. {and if any escaped his ever-watchful eyes, then it could surely be but a handful...} The Camarilla agreed, and put it to canon, closing the book on the Salurbi. And over the years, Tremere grows older still, slipping only now and then, only when Saulot needs him to... hey, if you don't agree, I really could care less. Just don't think even diablerie is the end. You can't destroy a soul, and nothing ever ends. Nothing. from the secret files of the Malkavian researcher, Ahab, as transcribed by... Jack Dracula\ "The Washington Post wishes to announce that it has no proof nor evidence that Mr. Lodowick Allison is an agent of the Dark Beast of the Nether World." -_The Washington Post_, 11/14/93, page F1 --- --- --- (Message vampire:92) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 11:28:01 -0800 From: "Douglas F. DeJulio" Subject: Tremere/Saulot/Diablerie "John R. Cooper" writes: > Okay, I'll buy that. Ol' Tremere pulled a Darius (Highlander reference, > sorry). Only question is, why would Saulot intentionally seek out and > destroy all of his Salubri childer through Tremere? Hardly sounds like > the actions of an Antediluvian who found the peace of Golconda. I'd like > to hear some creative explanations for this; something sharper than "Well, > it took a while for Saulot to take complete control; for a while Tremere's > soul fought real hard..." Saulot was the first Kindred to achieve Golconda. The remaining seven Salubri spend their entire vampiric existence on a quest for Golconda. This may not always have been true. The attack on the Salubri clan/bloodline may have been to purge it of the corrupt members, purifying the clan. Maybe only when all of his Childer were pure and focused would Salubri gain the clarity of essence neccesary to be able to manipulate the Tremere more perfectly. Note that the number of Salubri in existence, the number working to achieve Golconda, is always equal to the number of Tremere in the inner circle (except for a short time when a new apprentice is being trained). Seven is an important number, mystically. Do both the seven Tremere of the Circle and the seven Salubri report to the same entity -- that amalgam of Tremere and Saulot that resulted from the first Diablerie of a vampire in Golconda? It is also interesting to note that all Salubri today are *required* to Diablerize their sires. Just like Tremere and Saulot. Yep, yep, it's getting more and more suspicious the more I look at it... -- Doug DeJulio ddj+@cmu.edu --- --- --- (Message vampire:86) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 09:43:13 -0800 From: rmaddy@chess.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Diablerie John R. Cooper writes >On Thu, 18 Nov 1993, Jack Dracula wrote: >> Third: On Tremere >> 'Member in the Power Rumors section in the Player's Guide they mention that >> someone is commanding the Council of Seven of the Tremere? 'Member how they >> suggest it is something that isn't even Kindred, or possibly Caine? >> Think it's Tremere? It ain't. It's Saulot. >Okay, I'll buy that. Ol' Tremere pulled a Darius (Highlander reference, >sorry). Only question is, why would Saulot intentionally seek out and >destroy all of his Salubri childer through Tremere? Hardly sounds like >the actions of an Antediluvian who found the peace of Golconda. I'd like >to hear some creative explanations for this; something sharper than "Well, >it took a while for Saulot to take complete control; for a while Tremere's >soul fought real hard..." Twisted soul that I am, I like the idea of Saulot controlling Tremere's body/corpse and pretending to be Tremere and running the clan. Why? Because he's EVIL. All this stuff about the Salubri being "nice" folks - lies. They really are soul-suckers. Golconda? Maybe it exists, maybe not, but following Saulot's path is a delusion. I like the idea that the Iconnu have been deluding themselves for centuries and made Saulot into the martyred saint he never was. I like the thought that Saulot might be more ruthless, more cunning than Tremere ever was. This leaves a couple of options for the Salubri: 1. Change the Obeah discipline around abit to make them deceivers (not really satisfying, as this role is easily filled by the Ravnos and Setites). 2. Golconda exits, the Salubri are on the path to it, but the path to golconda was not established by Saulot. The Salubri may or may not know that Saulot never reached Golconda. It would be hard to get a straight answer out of them, I imagine, what with all the blood hunts called every time they open their third eye. Why does Tremere want the Salubri destroyed? If they know Saulot didn't reach Golconda, he wants them silenced. If they don't know, maybe they can see things with that third eye that would reveal things about clan Tremere that Tremere/Saulot would rather have kept hidden. Things to think about ... Richard Addy --- --- --- (Message vampire:95) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 11:37:29 -0800 From: "Douglas F. DeJulio" Subject: Re: Saulot/Tremere Another thought: Saulot achieved Golconda. His soul was freed. It flew, untethered, from his body. Something Else found the body. Something Else entered, and took the place of the soul, patient, waiting. Tremere played into its hands. He sucked down what he *thought* was the essence of Saulot, but was in fact some infernal spirit posessing his body. There are a thousand little ways to handle this whole Saulot/Tremere thing, just let your mind wander. -- Doug DeJulio ddj+@cmu.edu